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 A Conversation between Michael McNeely and Justin Pymento

My close friend and fellow accessibility advocate, Justin Pymento, sat down with me to complete this blog post, conversation style. As a note, I am deaf-blind but can see a little bit but CANNOT hear audio description. As a result, although not mentioned in this conversation, I do require assistance with mobility at times, especially navigating crowds.

Others with mobility challenges may require support persons, clear and bigger pathways (that can accommodate a larger wheelchair), wheelchair accessible washrooms, ramps, and elevators, among other access measures. Ideally, it would be great if one could move 100% freely amongst the environment, including on stage when and where they may receive an award or give a speech. 

The conversation I have with Justin is intended to reflect one way in which someone experiences watching movies. Correction: two ways, because you will read how Justin is impacted as well.

Setting the Scene

Michael McNeely (MM): I wanted us to have a conversation about support persons. As you know, from being one, they are not always a paid professional with qualifications in support work.

Justin Pymento (JP): Hi Michael, thank you for having me! Yes, I am not a paid professional, and I do not have any specific support qualifications. However, I feel like I am paid through everything I learn from your movie-watching expertise, and I think I have learned some pretty interesting things about how to better support you while we watch movies together!

MM: I appreciate the company - even if I pick something that isn't our cup of tea, you help me stick it out. I have been curious about whether I dislike movies for valid, internal reasons, or because I did not have enough support the first time (or second time) I watched. You know, I really love certain films like Happy-Go-Lucky and Sorry, Baby, which we watched together - and I don't want to hate the next movie I would love if I had a support person around.

JP: I think that’s a great question to have and re-evaluate over time. In the movies we have watched together (and your hit rate has been stellar overall), there have been so many great little details that one of us caught and the other missed. 

What a Support Person Can Bring to the Table

JP: What are some of the biggest things a support person can do to help you have the best possible experience watching a movie?

MM: Great question. I think at least one of us should know a little something about the movie. Not enough to ruin it but to put it in context of what to expect. It's nice to check-in after 20 minutes or so and identify any accessibility challenges we have encountered and can foresee. Are there flashbacks? Unnamed characters? Strobe lights? Fast action? I just watched Sean Baker’s Prince of Broadway and the camera was quite shaky, so that can be challenging too (still gave it four stars out of five, but was worried it would be too much and make me dizzy).

I like how we pause the film or the fast-moving The Pitt and get our bearings. 

Worrying About Being a Burden

MM: Let me ask you a question. Do you ever get frustrated or impatient with my pace of stopping and going? I know some movies build momentum and then I stop it and ask, “What happened?” I wonder if the director would be mad. 

JP: Regarding context, I definitely wish either of us had looked into Ambulance before we gave it a try - that’s what we get for giving Michael Bay a chance, only for him to put us through drone shots at 400 mph. 

At the beginning, it wasn’t so much that I was feeling impatient. If I’m being very honest, I would become defensive and overthink whether I was explaining enough. Like anything, there was a learning curve as I figured out what I should be telling you about and what you were looking for. Now, I have fun with how much more perceptive I have become. For example, I better understand that I should point out small changes in the music (which can be the first signs of a tonal shift), or highlight when characters are doing small, shifty things in the corners of the screen. 

Regarding the pace of stopping, I think that is also something we have worked on over time. I like that there is no set formula. Sometimes we pause a lot, and sometimes those discussions save me from misunderstanding something too. Other times we agree to watch the full fight scene first, and then we go back and rewatch it with more pauses. 

I think we are helping stress-test these movies for their directors. They better make sure their movies can handle being paused for accessibility’s sake!

Overcoming Accessibility Barriers (or Working Within Them)

MM: I really appreciate you saying these things. I want us to enjoy movies together so we have a common experience but I (and sometimes you) need scaffolding too. For our friends at FFA, how can we implement our ideas for wider audiences and tight showtimes? 

I'll go first. There could be a checklist of “challenging” cinematic conventions like:

• shaky camera

• faces obscured

• subtitles not identifying speakers

• subtitles without a background 

• subtitles without a background ON white

• subtitle size too small 

• dark scenes

• strobe or differential lighting

• non-linearity

• easy to miss date/location indicator (i.e. Glasgow, 1973)

• fast scenes/jump scares

• non-subtitled aspects

• overlapping dialogue

I think intermissions are important. 

What do you think about volunteers who have seen the movie already being available to answer questions about content? Or a “movie club” for everyone right after?

JP: That’s a great list! And just to be clear, identifying these things as accessibility challenges doesn’t mean we want them removed from films altogether, right? They really can add flavour and variety. But at the same time, filmmakers should consider how heavily they rely on them, whether they are the only way to create the effect/feeling they want, and whether their (over)use may prevent some viewers’ accessibility needs from being met or limit their enjoyment of the film. 

The list also offers something practical for people promoting films or managing film festival websites - please identify these elements in advance so viewers know what to expect and what support they may need! 

If I can add a few more things from our movie adventures together: 

• Very small props (which later become way too important)

• Off-screen dialogue (or dialogue of different languages) that is not captioned

• Rapidly introduced or visually similar characters

• Brief and small onscreen text (such as important info appearing quickly on a phone/laptop screen)

Community Building, Making Sure Nothing Important is Missed

JP: Your questions at the end make me think so much about community-building. I really like both ideas; they could even help people make friends. In fact, what higher honour could there be for a movie than bringing people closer together? I feel so lucky to have you and my friends to talk with about movies. 

Some people might wonder how the volunteer idea could work during a busy festival with tight showtimes. Was there a particular experience that first made you think about having volunteers available?

MM: I used to go to movies by myself often. Nowadays, I'm happiest having company. When attending film festivals, you can watch films that don't have a theatrical or streaming release date yet. One I saw last September at TIFF, Olmo, was just wide-released this month. I was happy to have watched it with my intervenor so I could ask clarifying questions. I felt good about rating it at the time as a result. 4 out of 5 with a heart, no less. That is what the following screenshot indicates, including the mini-review I wrote: “A touching story that asks how we care for relatives when we don’t really feel like doing so.” The poster of Olmo focuses on a teen boy smiling and looking off to the side in front of his couch.

As a critic, I want to rate things as soon as possible with as much information as I can process. For really new movies, fan comments haven't come out yet. 

I really liked what you added to the working list of potential access barriers. Small objects in movies are the bane of my existence especially if not referenced. I worry that I missed something and that I’m not on the same wavelength as the movie anymore. Like, does the character have a weapon or a key that she needs?

This screenshot shows April (Aubrey Plaza), from Parks and Recreation saying, “So I could steal his keys.” The dialogue emphasizes that, in fact, April is holding keys that she stole which helps the viewer while also indicating an in-story development.

I cannot read text messages on screen fast enough (lighting and angle/movement are always different than the film's usual shots). My eyes don’t work that fast! So I like it when people read the information out loud (or at home, I pause).

See? I don't even know where to start reading this screenshot of a phone’s text messages and I have only, what, 2 seconds when the film or TV show actually shows it?

JP: Your experience watching Olmo is a great example of why having the right support matters. I know you as an amazing movie critic, and it is a shame to think that inaccessible details can sometimes keep you from feeling confident enough to share your reviews. But with a support person to provide the tiny extra boost, suddenly, we all get to benefit from a four-out-five-with-a-heart review! And it is only fair that you get to review a film while it is still new, alongside other critics. 

I love the Parks and Recreation April screenshot because it shows that there is definitely a balance to be found. The car keys themselves are tiny, but it only takes a few subtitled words, “I stole his keys,” to give us the info we need. That phone screenshot is another story, yikes! It makes me think of how we both complimented DTF St. Louis for zooming in, using the right pacing, and having the perfect amount of detail on phone and computer screens. Linda Cardellini would be saying “No way, José,” to that screenshot.

Finding Balance 

JP: It also makes me think about the role of a support person. Sometimes, the helpful response isn’t to constantly force pause and read every tiny word, but just to point out the important info or simply reassure the other person, “Nope, nothing critical.”

I keep coming back to this idea of balance: when does a stylistic choice add something valuable to a film, and when does it become an unnecessary barrier? Are there other kinds of scenes where you find that balance especially difficult? Would knowing about these barriers in advance help you prepare?

MM: I have a hard time with crowd scenes or introducing a group at once. My facial recognition is a bit dodgy. As a result, I have a hard time with short scenes and montages. I walked out of Little Women as I couldn't tell the sisters apart! If a movie is about relationships, and some relationships are meant to be inferred (i.e. she’s her mom because she’s older and she gave her a hug) - I may miss that altogether. 

I remember with the issues with the CaptiView, it took me about half of the film to find out the protagonist’s name for Conclave. It can be hard to match the person with the character or know who someone is referring to.

I think you're right to ask if stylistic choices help or hurt the main message. I think if I know the barriers to expect, I can ensure I have the support and time I need to process the film.

I think refunds should be easily available if I exerted myself at the previous movie or cannot cope, and there should be opportunities to request intermissions if needed.

JP:  I too struggle with visually similar characters. Sometimes I ask you to remind me who’s who! Filmmakers, can you please bring back evil mustaches?

Conclusion – Advice From the Heart

MM: Justin, I want to thank you for your time for our fireside chat. I can give you the opportunity to have the last word. Any advice for film festival organizers and support persons? 

JP: From everything we’ve discussed, my biggest advice to film festival organizers is to provide clear accessibility information as early as possible. Ask filmmakers and distributors about captioning and known accessibility challenges, and then put that info somewhere accessible and easy to find! People who need it can choose to read it, without spoiling anything for those who would rather not know in advance. This helps ALL viewers understand what they may be going into, plan the support or time they may need, and avoid wasting energy hunting down this critical information. 

And keep thinking creatively! Just as Michael pointed out potential ideas like connecting people / film club, planned intermissions or flexible refunds, know that accessibility helps build a stronger film community. 

For anyone considering becoming a support person, remember where our conversation began. You do not need professional qualifications or a memorized, lengthy checklist. Start with an open, caring mindset. Ask what is helpful, try your best, and stay open to feedback. Everyone’s needs will be different, but you will find that balance together. In the end, you just end up improving the collective experience!

Michael, thank you for inviting me into this conversation and trusting me to learn alongside you. I may still be an amateur, but I’m grateful to be on this journey and excited for our next movie adventure!